The IRC chat with Jim and Paul went well, with over 40 zopistas in attendance. The general topic was Perl Methods and Methods in general for the first half an hour, and the second half was open chat. What follows is a condensed and paraphrased synopsis. Hugo Ramos (aka Silver_Surfer) has done a wonderful un-filtered log of the chat.

There were about 60% on-topic questions, very good for an IRC chat :) . You can visit the moderated synopsis [1] or the unmoderated synopsis [2].

[1] Moderated Synopsis

Zadig1: how will Perl Methods fit in?

Jim: initially they'll fit in the way external methods fit in. We want this to be an open process: we will bring up issues and address them in the Zope Perl Wiki.

Witt: What about security in those external methods? What kind of wrapping will be there for perl products etc?

Jim: External methods require a high level of trust. this is obviously both good and bad. Figuring out how to do safe through the web methods (including Perl) is very attractive. which is why we're eager to get an official Python Methods out. We don't envision Perl Product. We have a bit of work to do to work out the details of safe perl. Our initial thinking is that we will be able to provide safety through control of the boundary between perl and python.

itamar: What kind of interface will [Perl Methods] have?

Jim: They will be able to access Python objects in much the same way that PythonMethods, or, for that matter DTML methods do. They will have a namespace that includes objects based on tIt's worth noting that we (DC) are somewhat actively involved in "Method Geddon". The goal of Method Geddon is to provide much more uniformity and rationality to the ways that all methods behave.he objects they are invoked on and objects passed in.

mindlace: participate in Method Geddon

macguyver007: what made you decide to start out with Perl instead of another language?

Jim: Perl was attractive because scripting languages are attractive and it's the leading scripting language. Also a number of customers who want to transition to Python in Zope have asked about how they could leverage their existing perl libraries. For the most part, the interest has been during transition.

rmilner: Do zope/DC agree with the perl idea that there should be many ways to do things?

Jim: I certainly agree that there are many ways to solve a problem. This is true in Python. [...] I think providing multiple ways to do things is a necessary and useful reality. It is not the goal.

shane: What do you have to say to those who believe Perl methods will pollute Zope?

Jim: I know that perl methods won't pollute Zope any more than SQL methods have. Zope itself isn't written in SQL, even though SQL methods have been around since before Zope, or even Principia.

Jim: BTW- I have a higher opinion of Perl than I do of SQL. ;)

jasonic: Assuming a Zope evolution open for any langage scripting, how would you change DTML to make it more consistent with itself and simpler for open scripting?

Jim: I'm not sure in what ways it's inconsistent with itself. I see a possible XML-based DOM-based DTML version in the future, but it wouldn't differ that much in substance. I do see a deemphasis if exprs, although I doubt they'll go away entirely. DTML exprs will always be Python. We'll be open to many scripting languages, but python will remain core.

Tino: Am I right that perl can not be used for zope products but only for methods since perl does not support multiple inheritance?

Jim: I don't think that inheritence has much to do with it. We've decided not to support perl-based products, at least not without some sort of Python glue. That is, you will be able to build products that have a preponderance of perl methods but the product will be through the web or glued together with Python.

Jim: Before we open things up, I'd like to say that I'm very interested in comments on how we are doing wrt to opening the process. Obviously, we failed to anticipate the negative reactions we got wrt Perl methods. At deeper levels, we are working hard to open the process through the wikis. How are people finding the wiki experience?

mindlace: For more Wiki info, check out WikiCentral. To reply to Jim's questions, give us some feedback.

[2] Unmoderated synopsis:

Silver_Surfer: Are you planning to get virtual hosts working and binding the same IP address in future Zope releases as a core feature?

Jim: I'm a little guilty of creeping featurism in 2.2 in that I and others, especially Evan are trying hard yo get the right hooks in 2.2 for virtual hosts. See for example all the action in the object publishing area of the interfaces wiki.

Silver_Surfer: how do you see the future of Zope fighting against PHP space on the web?

Jim: I don't know much (enough) about PHP, but from what I vaguely know, PHP methods seem like a logical step.

ChrisW: The main problem I find with Wikis is knowing when things have changed.

Jim: Something I DESPERATELY want is notification for wikis. This is motivating some of the recent observer interfaces.

ucntcme: what about multiple languages and localisation? Even with the management interface? Can we get an effort for this?

Jim: I'd very much like to see this happen. I had an interesting talk at Linux Expo Montreal with some dudes from "Zope France". Sigh, so much to do, so little time...

Jim: On the topic of large contributions of code, such as modules, .... I think that this is important, however, it's much more important to get input at the requirements, architecture, and design level. Wikis, IMO, have great potential for this.

nbor: Will it ever be possible to access Zope facilities with XSL/XSLT instead of DTML

Jim: Absolutely, XSLT methods should happen RSN.

rev: what is status of WebDAV support and the Mozilla efforts?

Jim: We're not actively working on WebDAV (Waaaaa) any volunteers? :) I can't speak about the Mozilla effort and Paul doesn't have control of the KB.

AdamK: Is there any plans to use with Zope full corba compliant ORB?

Jim: CORBA? I'd love to see IIOP (CORBA) support added to ZServer. I'd also like to see some sort of CORBA methods for calling out. Let me put this another way, I'd like to see CORBA support in Zope's ORB. ZEO probvides nice options for using other ORBs too. An object system stored with ZEO/ZODB could be published by ZServer/ZPublisher and with other ORBs.

Paul: Thanks a bunch everybody for participating. We'll post the results of this and try to make this a regularly scheduled activity.