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<title>IRC log of zope3-dev on 2002-03-02</title>
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<h1>IRC log of zope3-dev on 2002-03-02</h1>
<p><em>Timestamps are in UTC.</em></p>
<dl class="IRC">
<dt id="T00-04-47">00:04:47 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T00-07-20">00:07:20 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>cheguei em casa agora</dd>
<dt id="T00-11-54">00:11:54 [drauku]</dt><dd>damn my babelfish fell out again</dd>
<dt id="T00-13-29">00:13:29 [srichter]</dt><dd>JimFulton: Did you get the main branch working again?</dd>
<dt id="T00-17-06">00:17:06 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher has quit</dd>
<dt id="T00-20-14">00:20:14 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T00-25-04">00:25:04 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>anyone can help me to debug a segfault with zope3 on debian-powerpc?</dd>
<dt id="T00-26-33">00:26:33 [Metron]</dt><dd>is there a repeatable procedure to check if this segfault is related to the known BTree problem?</dd>
<dt id="T00-29-48">00:29:48 [Metron]</dt><dd>guess we could proceed with this question to #zope then :-)</dd>
<dt id="T00-30-57">00:30:57 [Martijn]</dt><dd>Martijn is now known as MJ|away</dd>
<dt id="T00-36-52">00:36:52 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>Stephan, the tests are still failing</dd>
<dt id="T00-37-13">00:37:13 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>Maybe I'll just disable the tests</dd>
<dt id="T00-37-43">00:37:43 [srichter]</dt><dd>Jim: Yeah, I will checkout a head too and fix it</dd>
<dt id="T00-38-02">00:38:02 [srichter]</dt><dd>Jim: on the other hand I might just merge </dd>
<dt id="T00-38-35">00:38:35 [srichter]</dt><dd>Metron: Interesting</dd>
<dt id="T00-39-19">00:39:19 [srichter]</dt><dd>Jim: I hope to get XML-RPC working in the next couple hours; geez, it just dawned on me that I need all the ZCML and Service stuff as well...</dd>
<dt id="T00-40-12">00:40:12 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>srichter: we are trying to backtrace the segfault on debian-powerpc</dd>
<dt id="T00-40-30">00:40:30 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>srichter: any help would be appreciated ;-)</dd>
<dt id="T00-40-57">00:40:57 [srichter]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher: no debian. I have PLENTY of work too</dd>
<dt id="T00-41-20">00:41:20 [srichter]</dt><dd>it would be for me I want XUL running NOW. <being stuborn></dd>
<dt id="T00-42-09">00:42:09 [srichter]</dt><dd>guido: I would not have a clue how to fix anything in Python other than in zome high-level Python modules maybe</dd>
<dt id="T00-42-51">00:42:51 [guido]</dt><dd>srichter: I don't mean just you, I'm just generally impressed that people here are helping out with Zope3. I wish I knew how to get more folks to help with Python...</dd>
<dt id="T00-43-10">00:43:10 [Metron]</dt><dd>guido: Zope3 is written in Python. Python is written in C. Thanks to you, Python rocks. So, basically it's your fault. :-)</dd>
<dt id="T00-44-01">00:44:01 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>guido: i m reeeeally interested on helping on anything i can!</dd>
<dt id="T00-44-52">00:44:52 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>guido: but first im needing some help on how to hook gdb to backtrace a segfault</dd>
<dt id="T00-45-58">00:45:58 [drauku]</dt><dd>guido, i know C. :) there is a todo list?</dd>
<dt id="T00-49-27">00:49:27 [drauku]</dt><dd>wait. i barely have enough time to do zope3</dd>
<dt id="T00-51-35">00:51:35 [srichter]</dt><dd>guido: I know you meant this generically, but I wanted to say that it might be easier to help in Zope3 than Python...</dd>
<dt id="T00-52-58">00:52:58 [drauku]</dt><dd>debugging a big c program kinda sucks</dd>
<dt id="T00-53-51">00:53:51 [limi]</dt><dd>srichter: do you have a few minutes for me?</dd>
<dt id="T00-58-02">00:58:02 [srichter]</dt><dd>limi: sure</dd>
<dt id="T00-58-52">00:58:52 [srichter]</dt><dd>limi = ? (I am sorry if I forgot and you had told me before)</dd>
<dt id="T00-59-18">00:59:18 [limi]</dt><dd>srichter: one of the Plone guys - check your /msg :)</dd>
<dt id="T01-01-03">01:01:03 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>now i have an output of strace of zope3 on my debian-ppc. i will attach it to the collector entry.</dd>
<dt id="T01-01-35">01:01:35 [limi]</dt><dd>srichter?</dd>
<dt id="T01-04-40">01:04:40 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>JkrLaptop has quit</dd>
<dt id="T02-03-52">02:03:52 [blackhole]</dt><dd>blackhole has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T02-03-52-1">02:03:52 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>topic is: reminder: the noise level should be kept low. Yes, we know it ain't easy on IRC, but remember, we have #zope and #python.</dd>
<dt id="T02-03-52-2">02:03:52 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>Users on #zope3-dev: blackhole hazmat Metron limi @guido rdmurray @JimFulton pobrien tav HammerToe Ipazuzu scipient SteveA|way srichter MJ|away FarcePest cdesousa bigdaddy @drauku </dd>
<dt id="T02-14-17">02:14:17 [zigg]</dt><dd>zigg has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T02-14-19">02:14:19 [limi]</dt><dd>limi has quit</dd>
<dt id="T02-25-50">02:25:50 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>JimFulton has quit</dd>
<dt id="T02-28-01">02:28:01 [limi]</dt><dd>limi has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T02-28-33">02:28:33 [zigg]</dt><dd>hmm. OOBTree is definitely giving my gc headaches. I want to know why it gives nobody else headaches. can I get someone to try something for me?</dd>
<dt id="T02-39-40">02:39:40 [srichter]</dt><dd>zigg: shoot</dd>
<dt id="T02-39-55">02:39:55 [zigg]</dt><dd>PYTHONPATH=lib/python python</dd>
<dt id="T02-39-58">02:39:58 [zigg]</dt><dd>import gc</dd>
<dt id="T02-40-04">02:40:04 [zigg]</dt><dd>import Persistence.BTrees.OOBTree</dd>
<dt id="T02-40-06">02:40:06 [zigg]</dt><dd>gc.collect()</dd>
<dt id="T02-40-09">02:40:09 [zigg]</dt><dd>see if that crashes your python</dd>
<dt id="T02-40-27">02:40:27 [srichter]</dt><dd>ok</dd>
<dt id="T02-40-50">02:40:50 [zigg]</dt><dd>if it doesn't, I'm going to scream like a little girl. (-:</dd>
<dt id="T02-41-39">02:41:39 [drauku]</dt><dd>record it</dd>
<dt id="T02-41-49">02:41:49 [srichter]</dt><dd>I got 0 as result</dd>
<dt id="T02-41-53">02:41:53 [srichter]</dt><dd>no crash</dd>
<dt id="T02-41-56">02:41:56 [zigg]</dt><dd>grr.</dd>
<dt id="T02-42-10">02:42:10 [zigg]</dt><dd>well, that rules out yet another idea</dd>
<dt id="T02-42-12">02:42:12 [srichter]</dt><dd>that is a build with the OOTree stuff from last night</dd>
<dt id="T02-42-21">02:42:21 [zigg]</dt><dd>I think I updated two days ago, I'll update again just in case.</dd>
<dt id="T02-42-28">02:42:28 [srichter]</dt><dd>on: [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)] on linux2</dd>
<dt id="T02-42-59">02:42:59 [zigg]</dt><dd>drau: ?</dd>
<dt id="T02-43-30">02:43:30 [zigg]</dt><dd>ah, more changes :-)</dd>
<dt id="T02-43-43">02:43:43 [zigg]</dt><dd>let's see...</dd>
<dt id="T02-43-58">02:43:58 [srichter]</dt><dd>zigg: let me know...</dd>
<dt id="T02-45-37">02:45:37 [zigg]</dt><dd>urg. now I can't even get to gc.collect()</dd>
<dt id="T02-52-53">02:52:53 [srichter]</dt><dd>zigg: what error do you get?</dd>
<dt id="T02-53-25">02:53:25 [zigg]</dt><dd>core</dd>
<dt id="T02-53-38">02:53:38 [zigg]</dt><dd>when I look at it in gdb, the garbage collector structure seems to be unitialized.</dd>
<dt id="T02-53-40">02:53:40 [srichter]</dt><dd>core dump? Shrug</dd>
<dt id="T02-53-44">02:53:44 [zigg]</dt><dd>:-)</dd>
<dt id="T02-54-00">02:54:00 [srichter]</dt><dd>weired</dd>
<dt id="T02-54-23">02:54:23 [srichter]</dt><dd>could this be a memory management problem?</dd>
<dt id="T02-54-43">02:54:43 [zigg]</dt><dd>I'm really not sure, I'm not familiar with python internals at all.</dd>
<dt id="T02-54-44">02:54:44 [drauku]</dt><dd>zigg this is on openbsd?</dd>
<dt id="T02-54-46">02:54:46 [zigg]</dt><dd>yes</dd>
<dt id="T02-54-55">02:54:55 [drauku]</dt><dd>srichter, is on linux or windows</dd>
<dt id="T02-55-03">02:55:03 [drauku]</dt><dd>s/,//</dd>
<dt id="T02-55-24">02:55:24 [drauku]</dt><dd>if all things being equal, python is borked maybe for openbsd?</dd>
<dt id="T02-55-37">02:55:37 [zigg]</dt><dd>well, python 2.1.2 works just great :-)</dd>
<dt id="T02-55-38">02:55:38 [zigg]</dt><dd>brb</dd>
<dt id="T02-55-57">02:55:57 [srichter]</dt><dd>drauku: linux, same box you work on</dd>
<dt id="T02-56-41">02:56:41 [drauku]</dt><dd>ok</dd>
<dt id="T02-56-57">02:56:57 [drauku]</dt><dd>zigg, okie dokie, sorry for the "insult" there then :)</dd>
<dt id="T02-58-15">02:58:15 [srichter]</dt><dd>zigg: you have a self built Python, right?</dd>
<dt id="T03-05-57">03:05:57 [Metron]</dt><dd>Metron has quit</dd>
<dt id="T03-09-06">03:09:06 [zigg]</dt><dd>back</dd>
<dt id="T03-09-24">03:09:24 [zigg]</dt><dd>I'm running the entirely 'default' install.</dd>
<dt id="T03-09-32">03:09:32 [zigg]</dt><dd>I suppose I could go play with some compiler flags...</dd>
<dt id="T03-10-12">03:10:12 [zigg]</dt><dd>there is no Python binary for OpenBSD except the port I maintain, and that one is dying too, except I can't get a backtrace because it has no debug symbols.</dd>
<dt id="T03-11-31">03:11:31 [srichter]</dt><dd>zigg: :(</dd>
<dt id="T03-12-05">03:12:05 [zigg]</dt><dd>it will work if I --without-cycle-gc it :-)</dd>
<dt id="T03-24-04">03:24:04 [srichter]</dt><dd>what does that mean?</dd>
<dt id="T03-24-57">03:24:57 [zigg]</dt><dd>if I compile python turning off the cycle garbage collector</dd>
<dt id="T03-25-09">03:25:09 [zigg]</dt><dd>it basically means anything that can't be picked up by the reference counter will never be garbage collected</dd>
<dt id="T03-25-26">03:25:26 [zigg]</dt><dd>sure, it'll work great for development, but it'd be nice to get it fixed earlier rather than later...</dd>
<dt id="T03-28-34">03:28:34 [pobrien]</dt><dd>pobrien has quit</dd>
<dt id="T03-34-54">03:34:54 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T03-37-01">03:37:01 [srichter]</dt><dd>zigg: right</dd>
<dt id="T03-39-17">03:39:17 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>Disconnected from zahn.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer)</dd>
<dt id="T04-06-00">04:06:00 [blackhole]</dt><dd>blackhole has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T04-06-00-1">04:06:00 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>topic is: reminder: the noise level should be kept low. Yes, we know it ain't easy on IRC, but remember, we have #zope and #python.</dd>
<dt id="T04-06-00-2">04:06:00 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>Users on #zope3-dev: blackhole bigdaddy cdesousa MJ|away srichter SteveA|way Ipazuzu HammerToe tav rdmurray limi scipient zigg hazmat @drauku </dd>
<dt id="T04-12-50">04:12:50 [YET_____]</dt><dd>YET_____ has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T04-13-13">04:13:13 [srichter]</dt><dd>srichter has quit</dd>
<dt id="T04-16-06">04:16:06 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>JkrLaptop has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T04-23-47">04:23:47 [djay]</dt><dd>djay has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T04-33-29">04:33:29 [zigg]</dt><dd>zigg has quit</dd>
<dt id="T05-42-58">05:42:58 [blackhole]</dt><dd>blackhole has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T05-42-58-1">05:42:58 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>topic is: reminder: the noise level should be kept low. Yes, we know it ain't easy on IRC, but remember, we have #zope and #python.</dd>
<dt id="T05-42-58-2">05:42:58 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>Users on #zope3-dev: blackhole dc0e troy_es djay YET_____ bigdaddy cdesousa MJ|away SteveA|way Ipazuzu HammerToe tav rdmurray limi scipient @hazmat @drauku </dd>
<dt id="T08-46-44">08:46:44 [blackhole]</dt><dd>blackhole has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T08-46-44-1">08:46:44 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>topic is: reminder: the noise level should be kept low. Yes, we know it ain't easy on IRC, but remember, we have #zope and #python.</dd>
<dt id="T08-46-44-2">08:46:44 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>Users on #zope3-dev: blackhole mithro dc0e YET_____ bigdaddy cdesousa MJ|away SteveA|way Ipazuzu HammerToe tav rdmurray @hazmat </dd>
<dt id="T19-05-15">19:05:15 [blackhole]</dt><dd>blackhole has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T19-05-15-1">19:05:15 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>topic is: ::: [ z o p e 3 - d e v ] ::: reminder: the noise level should be kept low. ::: if you have logs from the last two days, please email them to me [[email protected]], so that they can be put up on the web logs of the channel. thanks :::</dd>
<dt id="T19-05-15-2">19:05:15 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>Users on #zope3-dev: blackhole guido limi acamargo srichter zigg JkrLaptop xena Ipazuzu tav drauku dc0e YET bigdaddy cdesousa MJ|away SteveA HammerToe rdmurray @hazmat </dd>
<dt id="T19-09-59">19:09:59 [hazmat]</dt><dd>my logger keeps timing out :(</dd>
<dt id="T19-10-21">19:10:21 [zigg]</dt><dd>xena is here now ...</dd>
<dt id="T19-10-27">19:10:27 [hazmat]</dt><dd>cool</dd>
<dt id="T19-10-41">19:10:41 [hazmat]</dt><dd>zigg: about the wrapper, did you run stupid_build.py</dd>
<dt id="T19-10-42">19:10:42 [SteveA]</dt><dd>I have logs since yesterday morning</dd>
<dt id="T19-10-51">19:10:51 [zigg]</dt><dd>haz: yes, I realized that a few seconds later ;-)</dd>
<dt id="T19-10-57">19:10:57 [zigg]</dt><dd>I mean, yes, I forgot to run it</dd>
<dt id="T19-11-18">19:11:18 [hazmat]</dt><dd>i've got an automated setup to upload logs to zope.org, except the logger isn't staying connected reliably.</dd>
<dt id="T19-13-01">19:13:01 [zigg]</dt><dd>I need to get in touch with some python internals people about this garbage collector issue... something changed between 2.1 and 2.2 that is giving OpenBSD fits.</dd>
<dt id="T19-13-39">19:13:39 [zigg]</dt><dd>anyone got any suggestions?</dd>
<dt id="T19-13-53">19:13:53 [zigg]</dt><dd>for people I mean, I don't want to waste anymore zope3-dev time with this :-)</dd>
<dt id="T19-20-57">19:20:57 [SteveA]</dt><dd>SteveA is now known as SteveA|way</dd>
<dt id="T19-24-27">19:24:27 [srichter]</dt><dd>did you know? Traversers are only "Views" in Zope 3</dd>
<dt id="T19-24-30">19:24:30 [srichter]</dt><dd>interesting</dd>
<dt id="T19-32-29">19:32:29 [Metron]</dt><dd>Metron has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T19-33-33">19:33:33 [Metron]</dt><dd>Metron has quit</dd>
<dt id="T19-33-54">19:33:54 [Metron]</dt><dd>Metron has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T19-34-35">19:34:35 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T22-34-32">22:34:32 [blackhole]</dt><dd>blackhole has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T22-34-32-1">22:34:32 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>topic is: ::: [ z o p e 3 - d e v ] ::: reminder: the noise level should be kept low. ::: if you have logs from the last two days, please email them to me [[email protected]], so that they can be put up on the web logs of the channel. thanks :::</dd>
<dt id="T22-34-32-2">22:34:32 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>Users on #zope3-dev: blackhole strichter @lalo[out] guido zigg JkrLaptop xena Ipazuzu tav drauku dc0e bigdaddy cdesousa MJ|away SteveA|way HammerToe rdmurray @hazmat </dd>
<dt id="T22-38-44">22:38:44 [guido]</dt><dd>blackhole: who are you</dd>
<dt id="T22-38-44-1">22:38:44 [guido]</dt><dd>I'm logging. I don't understand 'who are you', guido. Try /msg blackhole help</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-33">22:39:33 [zigg]</dt><dd>blackhole is hazmat's bot</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-44">22:39:44 [guido]</dt><dd>zigg: I know, just playing with him :)</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-47">22:39:47 [zigg]</dt><dd>o :-)</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-51">22:39:51 [hazmat]</dt><dd>which sadly disconnects at random...</dd>
<dt id="T22-41-57">22:41:57 [strichter]</dt><dd>does anyone know where the code for the tab creation is hidden/</dd>
<dt id="T22-41-59">22:41:59 [strichter]</dt><dd>?</dd>
<dt id="T22-43-58">22:43:58 [hazmat]</dt><dd>for the zmi?</dd>
<dt id="T22-44-03">22:44:03 [hazmat]</dt><dd>its in ZMIViewService</dd>
<dt id="T22-44-23">22:44:23 [strichter]</dt><dd>yes</dd>
<dt id="T22-44-44">22:44:44 [hazmat]</dt><dd>tabs are registered in config files, the ZMIViewService makes them available and filters them according to security and optionally a TALES expression.</dd>
<dt id="T22-45-16">22:45:16 [hazmat]</dt><dd>although how i implemented the security check should probably be revisited...</dd>
<dt id="T22-45-21">22:45:21 [strichter]</dt><dd>so, all I got to say is ZMIViewService.getViews() ?</dd>
<dt id="T22-46-18">22:46:18 [hazmat]</dt><dd>needs a context, i believe... i'm a little rusty.</dd>
<dt id="T22-46-28">22:46:28 [strichter]</dt><dd>yeah, I just saw that</dd>
<dt id="T22-46-37">22:46:37 [strichter]</dt><dd>What does it return?</dd>
<dt id="T22-46-45">22:46:45 [strichter]</dt><dd>list of ...?</dd>
<dt id="T22-46-53">22:46:53 [zigg]</dt><dd>whoa... ok... I am no C genius by any stretch, but I think there is a major GC-related data corruption problem with Python 2.2</dd>
<dt id="T22-47-37">22:47:37 [guido]</dt><dd>zigg: what makes you think that? I'm not aware of any.</dd>
<dt id="T22-47-58">22:47:58 [zigg]</dt><dd>well, PyType_Type has the HAVE_GC flag set.</dd>
<dt id="T22-48-02">22:48:02 [zigg]</dt><dd>or HAS_GC, I forget right now :-)</dd>
<dt id="T22-48-20">22:48:20 [guido]</dt><dd>...and?</dd>
<dt id="T22-48-21">22:48:21 [zigg]</dt><dd>all the type initializations I've seen are static</dd>
<dt id="T22-48-26">22:48:26 [zigg]</dt><dd>with no room for the GC head structure</dd>
<dt id="T22-48-31">22:48:31 [hazmat]</dt><dd>strichter: list of tuple corresponding to label and paths</dd>
<dt id="T22-48-54">22:48:54 [guido]</dt><dd>zigg: we've taken care of that, hold on why I get the reference to look up...</dd>
<dt id="T22-49-04">22:49:04 [zigg]</dt><dd>hmm, ok</dd>
<dt id="T22-49-24">22:49:24 [guido]</dt><dd>zigg: check out type_is_gc() in typeobject.c.</dd>
<dt id="T22-49-29">22:49:29 [strichter]</dt><dd>hazmat: :( paths are view-type specific</dd>
<dt id="T22-49-37">22:49:37 [hazmat]</dt><dd>perhaps there should be a #python-dev channel.</dd>
<dt id="T22-49-53">22:49:53 [guido]</dt><dd>hazmat: but I normally don't have time for that</dd>
<dt id="T22-49-57">22:49:57 [hazmat]</dt><dd>ic</dd>
<dt id="T22-50-01">22:50:01 [zigg]</dt><dd>haz: probably... but I'm still trying to determine whether my issues are z3-specific or python-specific :-)</dd>
<dt id="T22-50-49">22:50:49 [hazmat]</dt><dd>strichter: how so, the paths don't have to correlate to actual posititon if the default traverse chooses to return a different path segment upon traversal to the path.</dd>
<dt id="T22-51-51">22:51:51 [strichter]</dt><dd>mmh, ok, so my view object would need the same name for XUL and Browser... that's ok</dd>
<dt id="T22-52-19">22:52:19 [hazmat]</dt><dd>perhaps the ZMIviewservice, should taken into account various presentation types, and maintain registries if the existing isn't flexible enough.</dd>
<dt id="T22-52-31">22:52:31 [strichter]</dt><dd>yep</dd>
<dt id="T22-52-42">22:52:42 [strichter]</dt><dd>I think that might be necessary</dd>
<dt id="T22-52-46">22:52:46 [strichter]</dt><dd>later</dd>
<dt id="T22-52-51">22:52:51 [strichter]</dt><dd>for now it is ok</dd>
<dt id="T22-58-50">22:58:50 [strichter]</dt><dd>hazmat: actually I realized that the thing with the tabs is not okay, since both HTML and XUL use the Browser View namespace</dd>
<dt id="T22-59-31">22:59:31 [zigg]</dt><dd>woo! fixed!</dd>
<dt id="T23-00-56">23:00:56 [strichter]</dt><dd>zigg: VERY GOOD JOB!</dd>
<dt id="T23-01-12">23:01:12 [zigg]</dt><dd>if it weren't for guido's hint, I'd still be running around in circles. :-)</dd>
<dt id="T23-01-25">23:01:25 [strichter]</dt><dd>zigg: If everyone cares about porting that much, we will have the most portable platform ever! :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-01-45">23:01:45 [strichter]</dt><dd>guido: good job in giving hints to zigg. :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-01-56">23:01:56 [guido]</dt><dd>I have no idea what I did :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-01">23:02:01 [strichter]</dt><dd>LOL</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-01-1">23:02:01 [zigg]</dt><dd>heheh</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-02">23:02:02 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>whoa</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-22">23:02:22 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>tried to test the Formulator branch, got three pages worth of traceback</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-25">23:02:25 [zigg]</dt><dd>well, I'm just driven by an intense desire to not reformat my laptop.</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-28">23:02:28 [strichter]</dt><dd>zigg: but now you need to let us know...</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-37">23:02:37 [zigg]</dt><dd>yes, well I am going to take this one to jeremy...</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-47">23:02:47 [strichter]</dt><dd>lalo: can you send them to me...</dd>
<dt id="T23-03-05">23:03:05 [zigg]</dt><dd>brb</dd>
<dt id="T23-03-15">23:03:15 [strichter]</dt><dd>lalo: unfortunately my cvs access is broke, but I might be able to give hints</dd>
<dt id="T23-03-23">23:03:23 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>I'll try to re-run stupid_build first to be sure it isn't my fault</dd>
<dt id="T23-03-30">23:03:30 [strichter]</dt><dd>zigg is getting a bottle of champagne to celebrate</dd>
<dt id="T23-03-57">23:03:57 [strichter]</dt><dd>lalo: ok. I had only three errors</dd>
<dt id="T23-04-06">23:04:06 [strichter]</dt><dd>lalo: which is ok</dd>
<dt id="T23-04-44">23:04:44 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>I can't dcc</dd>
<dt id="T23-04-48">23:04:48 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>(firewall)</dd>
<dt id="T23-05-04">23:05:04 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>but seems to be something related to site.zcml</dd>
<dt id="T23-05-12">23:05:12 [strichter]</dt><dd>?</dd>
<dt id="T23-05-17">23:05:17 [zigg]</dt><dd>strichter: already had a couple beers, I'm set. and I relearned gdb, which in itself kills more brain cells than most alcoholic celebrations. and now I'll stop lowering the S/N ratio of the channel (-:</dd>
<dt id="T23-05-32">23:05:32 [strichter]</dt><dd>lalo: send site.zcml and errors to [email protected]</dd>
<dt id="T23-05-52">23:05:52 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>nope; actually it's about App/OFS/Folder/Views/Browser/browser.zcml (nice that zcml traces back too)</dd>
<dt id="T23-06-10">23:06:10 [strichter]</dt><dd>lalo: yep.</dd>
<dt id="T23-06-15">23:06:15 [rdmurray]</dt><dd>rdmurray has quit</dd>
<dt id="T23-07-35">23:07:35 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>done</dd>
<dt id="T23-08-10">23:08:10 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>and I'm gone :-) bbl</dd>
<dt id="T23-09-02">23:09:02 [strichter]</dt><dd>lalo: bye</dd>
<dt id="T23-21-57">23:21:57 [strichter]</dt><dd>hazmat: do you remember the ZPT file where you generate the Tabs part?</dd>
<dt id="T23-23-49">23:23:49 [SteveA|way]</dt><dd>SteveA|way is now known as SteveA</dd>
<dt id="T23-23-55">23:23:55 [SteveA]</dt><dd>I know about ZMI tabs</dd>
<dt id="T23-24-15">23:24:15 [strichter]</dt><dd>SteveA: Hello, yes, you know where the ZPT is?</dd>
<dt id="T23-24-27">23:24:27 [SteveA]</dt><dd>just a sec</dd>
<dt id="T23-24-36">23:24:36 [strichter]</dt><dd>SteveA: BTW, is your CVS access also shot?</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-03">23:25:03 [SteveA]</dt><dd>just updated ok</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-12">23:25:12 [strichter]</dt><dd>:(</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-16">23:25:16 [SteveA]</dt><dd>Zope/App/ZMIViewUtility.py</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-53">23:25:53 [SteveA]</dt><dd>had to look into this when I was learning about the ContextWrapper thing</dd>
<dt id="T23-26-04">23:26:04 [hazmat]</dt><dd>standard_macros.pt</dd>
<dt id="T23-26-07">23:26:07 [strichter]</dt><dd>ah</dd>
<dt id="T23-26-12">23:26:12 [hazmat]</dt><dd>in Zope/App/ZMI/www</dd>
<dt id="T23-26-33">23:26:33 [SteveA]</dt><dd>oh yeah... I answerwed a similar but related question :-)</dd>
<dt id="T23-26-36">23:26:36 [strichter]</dt><dd>ah, ther it is</dd>
<dt id="T23-27-04">23:27:04 [hazmat]</dt><dd>hi SteveA</dd>
<dt id="T23-27-31">23:27:31 [SteveA]</dt><dd>hi K.</dd>
<dt id="T23-28-32">23:28:32 [SteveA]</dt><dd>cool.</dd>
<dt id="T23-28-44">23:28:44 [SteveA]</dt><dd>a "Sprint for Zope3" one?</dd>
<dt id="T23-29-43">23:29:43 [hazmat]</dt><dd>no a thanks for talking about zope at ipc10, type of t-shirt, its a standard zope.org t-shirt with a zope-corp label embrodiered (sp:( ) on the front</dd>
<dt id="T23-31-14">23:31:14 [SteveA]</dt><dd>oh, cool</dd>
<dt id="T23-31-21">23:31:21 [hazmat]</dt><dd>i now have enough python and zope tshirts for a week and a half :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-31-33">23:31:33 [SteveA]</dt><dd>I wonder if I can blag one for talking about Zope3 at the uk python conference next month :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-31-37">23:31:37 [strichter]</dt><dd>look at: <a href="http://physics.cbu.edu:8080/loaded/main_xul;view">http://physics.cbu.edu:8080/loaded/main_xul;view</a></dd>
<dt id="T23-32-07">23:32:07 [strichter]</dt><dd>with NS 6.2 or moz of course</dd>
<dt id="T23-32-28">23:32:28 [hazmat]</dt><dd>cool</dd>
<dt id="T23-32-32">23:32:32 [zigg]</dt><dd>that's another thing I have to do, get mozilla running on OpenBSD (_:</dd>
<dt id="T23-32-46">23:32:46 [hazmat]</dt><dd>the menu on the left looks a little funny at the bottom left though... not sure why.</dd>
<dt id="T23-33-35">23:33:35 [strichter]</dt><dd>this is because I stretched the box only for 600 px. vertically</dd>
<dt id="T23-33-44">23:33:44 [strichter]</dt><dd>height="100%" does not work</dd>
<dt id="T23-33-57">23:33:57 [zigg]</dt><dd>ick.</dd>
<dt id="T23-34-13">23:34:13 [zigg]</dt><dd>I'm of the firm opinion that pixel values should not go in the tree... for what it's worth.</dd>
<dt id="T23-34-16">23:34:16 [SteveA]</dt><dd>strichter: cool. Can you do them as tabs too? :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-34-31">23:34:31 [strichter]</dt><dd>SteveA: Yes</dd>
<dt id="T23-35-03">23:35:03 [zigg]</dt><dd>s: did you submit a moz bug about that?</dd>
<dt id="T23-35-04">23:35:04 [SteveA]</dt><dd>I'm about 3/4 through the XULPlanet tutorial</dd>
<dt id="T23-35-05">23:35:05 [strichter]</dt><dd>but I thought this way it would be better, since we had this tab convolution in Z2</dd>
<dt id="T23-35-20">23:35:20 [strichter]</dt><dd>yeah, the tutorial is quiet nice</dd>
<dt id="T23-35-58">23:35:58 [strichter]</dt><dd>zigg: I agree. In the end there will be no pixels left</dd>
<dt id="T23-36-10">23:36:10 [zigg]</dt><dd>cool. 10x. :-)</dd>
<dt id="T23-36-20">23:36:20 [hazmat]</dt><dd>the XULTutorial is great, another good bit of reading is the oreilly javscript book 3rd edition</dd>
<dt id="T23-36-25">23:36:25 [hazmat]</dt><dd>for moz programming.</dd>
<dt id="T23-36-53">23:36:53 [strichter]</dt><dd>I have only one big problem let</dd>
<dt id="T23-37-23">23:37:23 [strichter]</dt><dd>I cannot get around the security that will not permit Web-based scripts to access XPComponents, such as XML-RPC</dd>
<dt id="T23-37-35">23:37:35 [strichter]</dt><dd>BTW, I have a half-baked version of XML-RPC running too</dd>
<dt id="T23-38-03">23:38:03 [hazmat]</dt><dd>you have to run and install it as a xul app, most likely. you should have access to XmlHttpRequest though.</dd>
<dt id="T23-38-12">23:38:12 [strichter]</dt><dd>But Zope/App/ZopePublication needs a MAJOR redesign in order to allow for other protocols</dd>
<dt id="T23-38-45">23:38:45 [hazmat]</dt><dd>indeed. how are you deciding between protocols layered over top of http (ie xml-rpc vs. soap)?</dd>
<dt id="T23-38-53">23:38:53 [strichter]</dt><dd>hazmat: But Martijn worte such a nice XML-RPC support for Mozilla... why would I want to go that low level</dd>
<dt id="T23-39-24">23:39:24 [strichter]</dt><dd>hazmat: Well, that is easy, since you do that with Payloads...I can do that right now</dd>
<dt id="T23-39-26">23:39:26 [hazmat]</dt><dd>strichter: there probably is a way, but i'm fairly clueless on moz security architecture.</dd>
<dt id="T23-39-37">23:39:37 [strichter]</dt><dd>but the actual Traveral is totally browser-specific</dd>
<dt id="T23-39-55">23:39:55 [strichter]</dt><dd>in fact, even the naming convention in IBrowserPublisher sucks</dd>
<dt id="T23-40-02">23:40:02 [strichter]</dt><dd>it should be IHTTPPublisher</dd>
<dt id="T23-40-24">23:40:24 [strichter]</dt><dd>then I can reuse that stuff for Browser, XML-RPC and WebDAV</dd>
<dt id="T23-41-50">23:41:50 [strichter]</dt><dd>In the Traverser it says: IBrowserPublisher.isImplementedBy(ob) ... If this would be avstracted, I could reuse the Traverser code, but this way I can't</dd>
<dt id="T23-42-12">23:42:12 [lalo[out]]</dt><dd>lalo[out] has quit</dd>
<dt id="T23-42-19">23:42:19 [strichter]</dt><dd>but back to the XUL security</dd>
<dt id="T23-42-51">23:42:51 [strichter]</dt><dd>But I think I do not want to install a package</dd>
<dt id="T23-43-09">23:43:09 [zigg]</dt><dd>isn't there code-signing ability, much like there is for Java?</dd>
<dt id="T23-43-22">23:43:22 [SteveA]</dt><dd>can you get it so that you can call XML-RPC on the site that served you the page?</dd>
<dt id="T23-43-26">23:43:26 [strichter]</dt><dd>I want to set security in a way that the user can say: "I am aware of a possible security issue, but still allow it for this domain"</dd>
<dt id="T23-43-27">23:43:27 [zigg]</dt><dd>not that that's a particularly good way to do it :-)</dd>
<dt id="T23-43-28">23:43:28 [SteveA]</dt><dd>like with Java applets</dd>
<dt id="T23-43-36">23:43:36 [strichter]</dt><dd>zigg: yes</dd>
<dt id="T23-43-56">23:43:56 [zigg]</dt><dd>I believe that with Java applets, you have to sign the applet before you can get to the "please let my applet do this" prompt</dd>
<dt id="T23-44-11">23:44:11 [strichter]</dt><dd>that's exactly what I want too</dd>
<dt id="T23-44-22">23:44:22 [strichter]</dt><dd>I think you can do this with signed scripts</dd>
<dt id="T23-44-52">23:44:52 [SteveA]</dt><dd><strichter> that's exactly what I want too <-- was that in answer to me?</dd>
<dt id="T23-44-54">23:44:54 [zigg]</dt><dd>well, if you determine that that's what you need to do, let me know, and I can fudge up a fake CA for testing.</dd>
<dt id="T23-45-06">23:45:06 [strichter]</dt><dd>SteveA: yes</dd>
<dt id="T23-45-21">23:45:21 [strichter]</dt><dd>CA?</dd>
<dt id="T23-45-42">23:45:42 [strichter]</dt><dd>I think I need to talk to Martijn about this</dd>
<dt id="T23-45-46">23:45:46 [zigg]</dt><dd>probably :-)</dd>
<dt id="T23-45-50">23:45:50 [strichter]</dt><dd>he should know much more...</dd>
<dt id="T23-46-35">23:46:35 [zigg]</dt><dd>I think the old zope-mozilla stuff required some things to be installed in mozilla's chrome dir.</dd>
<dt id="T23-46-38">23:46:38 [strichter]</dt><dd>I found on Web pages, that you can actually set Mozilla prefs to get around the security (at least for development purposes), but none of the settings worked</dd>
<dt id="T23-47-06">23:47:06 [strichter]</dt><dd>zigg: Well, Zope Studio tried to be a real application on the server side</dd>
<dt id="T23-47-25">23:47:25 [strichter]</dt><dd>but I want to avoid that, so that we are more flexible to changes in Zope</dd>
<dt id="T23-47-25-1">23:47:25 [SteveA]</dt><dd>strichter: in that case, if xmlrpc in mozilla doesn't work that way now, it is a reasonable enhancement to request</dd>
<dt id="T23-47-29">23:47:29 [hazmat]</dt><dd>a signed script wouldn't do it, since all the pages would need to be signed.</dd>
<dt id="T23-47-45">23:47:45 [strichter]</dt><dd>hazmat: yep, I know :(</dd>
<dt id="T23-48-04">23:48:04 [hazmat]</dt><dd>i guess you could get by if you restrict a transport layer to a signed script.... not sure.</dd>
<dt id="T23-48-22">23:48:22 [strichter]</dt><dd>mmh, interesting</dd>
<dt id="T23-48-35">23:48:35 [strichter]</dt><dd>but all this still sounds like a big hack</dd>
<dt id="T23-48-56">23:48:56 [strichter]</dt><dd>I do not understand what the problem with running XML-RPC client side is</dd>
<dt id="T23-49-07">23:49:07 [strichter]</dt><dd>it si the same as calling a Web site...geez</dd>
<dt id="T23-49-54">23:49:54 [SteveA]</dt><dd>anyone got a bugzilla.mozilla.org account?</dd>
<dt id="T23-50-55">23:50:55 [strichter]</dt><dd>nope</dd>
<dt id="T23-51-03">23:51:03 [strichter]</dt><dd>I guess I could get one</dd>
<dt id="T23-51-44">23:51:44 [strichter]</dt><dd>but I think we will get a standard answer that XML-RPC is a XPComponent and therefore follows this specific security rules</dd>
<dt id="T23-55-37">23:55:37 [strichter]</dt><dd>I will wait until I get a hold of MArtijn</dd>
<dt id="T23-57-12">23:57:12 [zigg]</dt><dd>I have a bugzilla account.</dd>
<dt id="T23-57-12-1">23:57:12 [SteveA]</dt><dd>SteveA is now known as SteveA|way</dd>
</dl>
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