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<h1>IRC log of zope3-dev on 2002-03-01</h1>
<p><em>Timestamps are in UTC.</em></p>
<dl class="IRC">
<dt id="T22-00-55">22:00:55 [blackhole]</dt><dd>blackhole has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T22-00-55-1">22:00:55 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>topic is: reminder: the noise level should be kept low. Yes, we know it ain't easy on IRC, but remember, we have #zope and #python.</dd>
<dt id="T22-00-55-2">22:00:55 [zahn.openprojects.net]</dt><dd>Users on #zope3-dev: blackhole YET_ Metron[out] pest limi @guido JkrLaptop rdmurray @JimFulton dreamcatcher pobrien @zigg tav HammerToe Ipazuzu scipient SteveA|way hazmat srichter Martijn FarcePest cdesousa bigdaddy @drauku </dd>
<dt id="T22-01-28">22:01:28 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher has quit</dd>
<dt id="T22-02-53">22:02:53 [itamar]</dt><dd>itamar has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T22-03-03">22:03:03 [itamar]</dt><dd>heh</dd>
<dt id="T22-03-12">22:03:12 [itamar]</dt><dd>itamar has left #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T22-03-42">22:03:42 [hazmat]</dt><dd>hazmat has quit</dd>
<dt id="T22-09-34">22:09:34 [zigg]</dt><dd>zigg has quit</dd>
<dt id="T22-09-50">22:09:50 [sidnei]</dt><dd>sidnei has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T22-09-59">22:09:59 [sidnei]</dt><dd>sidnei is now known as dreamcatcher</dd>
<dt id="T22-10-22">22:10:22 [SteveA|way]</dt><dd>SteveA|way is now known as SteveA</dd>
<dt id="T22-10-30">22:10:30 [SteveA]</dt><dd>JimFulton: I'm not getting any failures</dd>
<dt id="T22-10-46">22:10:46 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>SteveA: Zope3 collector, issue #13</dd>
<dt id="T22-11-13">22:11:13 [SteveA]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher: thanks. I'm on the supporters list, and I get an emails when there's a new item.</dd>
<dt id="T22-11-39">22:11:39 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>SteveA: just to make sure ;-)</dd>
<dt id="T22-11-55">22:11:55 [YET_]</dt><dd>YET_ has left #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T22-21-32">22:21:32 [SteveA]</dt><dd>SteveA is now known as SteveA|way</dd>
<dt id="T22-21-37">22:21:37 [srichter]</dt><dd>JimFulton: On my local branch?</dd>
<dt id="T22-21-50">22:21:50 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>instructions for anonymous cvs?</dd>
<dt id="T22-22-21">22:22:21 [srichter]</dt><dd>JimFulton: Yes, this is the reason, it is not in the main brnach yet. There is still some stuff I have not yet finished, especially in Formulator.</dd>
<dt id="T22-23-05">22:23:05 [srichter]</dt><dd>JimFulton: As SteveA said, it should work fine in the main branch.</dd>
<dt id="T22-23-52">22:23:52 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>ok, found it</dd>
<dt id="T22-28-46">22:28:46 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>No, I checked out from the main branch, Zope-3x-branch</dd>
<dt id="T22-31-48">22:31:48 [Metron[out]]</dt><dd>Metron[out] is now known as Metron</dd>
<dt id="T22-34-56">22:34:56 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>Hm, the problem only occurs when I do a fresh checkout.</dd>
<dt id="T22-35-47">22:35:47 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>I don't get an error when I just update an existing checkout</dd>
<dt id="T22-36-04">22:36:04 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>what module do i need to checkout to get zope3?</dd>
<dt id="T22-36-27">22:36:27 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>cvs co -rZope-3x-branch Zope3</dd>
<dt id="T22-37-00">22:37:00 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>See <a href="http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/SettingUpAZope3Sandbox">http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/SettingUpAZope3Sandbox</a></dd>
<dt id="T22-38-36">22:38:36 [Metron]</dt><dd>JimFulton: did you update -P -d?</dd>
<dt id="T22-38-49">22:38:49 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>yes</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-09">22:39:09 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>thanx</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-21">22:39:21 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>but i didn't give those on the checkout</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-23">22:39:23 [Metron]</dt><dd>funny, I can't think of other reason that could make a checkout different than an update</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-42">22:39:42 [Metron]</dt><dd>you can't, -P -d are parameters to the "update" command</dd>
<dt id="T22-39-59">22:39:59 [srichter]</dt><dd>Did anyone else try a fresh checkout?</dd>
<dt id="T22-40-04">22:40:04 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>I bet it's because some directories moved.</dd>
<dt id="T22-40-10">22:40:10 [Metron]</dt><dd>-d create new directories that are in the repository but not in your working dir; -P, the reverse (delete old directories)</dd>
<dt id="T22-40-21">22:40:21 [srichter]</dt><dd>JimFulton: BTW, what did you get for errors?</dd>
<dt id="T22-40-28">22:40:28 [L-array]</dt><dd>L-array has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T22-40-34">22:40:34 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>-P doesn't include empties.</dd>
<dt id="T22-41-07">22:41:07 [JimFulton]</dt><dd> from Zope.App.Formulator.Widgets.Widget import Widget</dd>
<dt id="T22-41-07-1">22:41:07 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>ImportError: No module named Widget</dd>
<dt id="T22-41-15">22:41:15 [srichter]</dt><dd>JimFulton: AHHHH!</dd>
<dt id="T22-41-29">22:41:29 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>:)</dd>
<dt id="T22-41-50">22:41:50 [srichter]</dt><dd>JimFulton: There was someweiredness with branches in this directory</dd>
<dt id="T22-42-09">22:42:09 [srichter]</dt><dd>Can we simply revive IWidget.py and Widget.py in Zope-3x-branch?</dd>
<dt id="T22-42-10">22:42:10 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>How did you move things?</dd>
<dt id="T22-42-20">22:42:20 [srichter]</dt><dd>under Formualtor/Widgets?</dd>
<dt id="T22-42-25">22:42:25 [srichter]</dt><dd>This will fix everyhting</dd>
<dt id="T22-42-37">22:42:37 [srichter]</dt><dd>well, I foolowed the CVS FAQ</dd>
<dt id="T22-43-01">22:43:01 [srichter]</dt><dd>but this Widgets directory did not work right, but I could not tell anything bad</dd>
<dt id="T22-43-18">22:43:18 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>Did you do cvs adds and removes? Or did you play with the linking facility</dd>
<dt id="T22-43-46">22:43:46 [srichter]</dt><dd>No, I simply tagged everything with my branch name and then used add and remove</dd>
<dt id="T22-44-05">22:44:05 [Metron]</dt><dd>cvs server: duplicate key found for `y'</dd>
<dt id="T22-44-07">22:44:07 [Metron]</dt><dd>what's this?</dd>
<dt id="T22-44-11">22:44:11 [srichter]</dt><dd>for some reason Widgets might not have been tagged correctly</dd>
<dt id="T22-44-59">22:44:59 [JimFulton]</dt><dd>You can revive Widget/IWidget if you wish</dd>
<dt id="T22-45-12">22:45:12 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>to anyone interested: about issue #13 on the collector: did a cvs checkout, and still segfault on ppc</dd>
<dt id="T22-46-51">22:46:51 [srichter]</dt><dd>Jim: Yeah, this would be a good idea</dd>
<dt id="T22-47-06">22:47:06 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>i have no time to update the entry right now.</dd>
<dt id="T22-47-11">22:47:11 [srichter]</dt><dd>Jim: This way all the tests will pass and Formualtor keeps working in the main branch</dd>
<dt id="T22-47-22">22:47:22 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>see ya on monday.</dd>
<dt id="T22-47-24">22:47:24 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>bye</dd>
<dt id="T22-47-28">22:47:28 [srichter]</dt><dd>bye</dd>
<dt id="T22-48-37">22:48:37 [srichter]</dt><dd>Jim: I hope I will be able to merge my changes at the end of the weekend; Until then I have to get XML-RPC working, Formulator polished and a basic XUL interface going (I am totally excited about XUL)</dd>
<dt id="T22-52-27">22:52:27 [srichter]</dt><dd>okay, I have to go...will be back later...</dd>
<dt id="T23-01-11">23:01:11 [pest]</dt><dd>jim, you there?</dd>
<dt id="T23-01-36">23:01:36 [pest]</dt><dd>pest has quit</dd>
<dt id="T23-01-38">23:01:38 [pest]</dt><dd>pest has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T23-01-57">23:01:57 [pest]</dt><dd>pest has left #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-36">23:02:36 [PaulE]</dt><dd>PaulE has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T23-02-53">23:02:53 [PaulE]</dt><dd>jim, you still around?</dd>
<dt id="T23-05-52">23:05:52 [Martijn]</dt><dd>PaulE: Jim is here doing a jam.</dd>
<dt id="T23-06-16">23:06:16 [PaulE]</dt><dd>ask him if he finished before my battery ran out, please.</dd>
<dt id="T23-10-14">23:10:14 [Metron]</dt><dd><a href="http://collector.zope.org/ZopeNews/2">http://collector.zope.org/ZopeNews/2</a> - Zope3 weekly news for March 01</dd>
<dt id="T23-10-20">23:10:20 [Metron]</dt><dd>post followups if you have something to add</dd>
<dt id="T23-12-23">23:12:23 [PaulE]</dt><dd>wow, you're awesome!</dd>
<dt id="T23-12-52">23:12:52 [PaulE]</dt><dd>btw, any interest in making plone the skin system for new.zope.org?</dd>
<dt id="T23-13-18">23:13:18 [Martijn]</dt><dd>PaulE: "Battery didn't last long long after you left"</dd>
<dt id="T23-13-23">23:13:23 [Martijn]</dt><dd>So, no :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-13-33">23:13:33 [PaulE]</dt><dd>did he get it saved before it died?</dd>
<dt id="T23-13-58">23:13:58 [Metron]</dt><dd>PaulE: yes :-) I have interest, and so does limi</dd>
<dt id="T23-14-01">23:14:01 [Martijn]</dt><dd>Jim shook his head.</dd>
<dt id="T23-14-06">23:14:06 [Metron]</dt><dd>limi: hello</dd>
<dt id="T23-14-21">23:14:21 [Martijn]</dt><dd>Apperntly he accidentially saved half the stuff when he hit F10.</dd>
<dt id="T23-14-23">23:14:23 [hazmat]</dt><dd>hazmat has joined #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T23-14-28">23:14:28 [dreamcatcher]</dt><dd>dreamcatcher has quit</dd>
<dt id="T23-14-49">23:14:49 [PaulE]</dt><dd>i assume "shook his head" means shook his head no?</dd>
<dt id="T23-15-30">23:15:30 [Martijn]</dt><dd>Yup.</dd>
<dt id="T23-15-46">23:15:46 [Martijn]</dt><dd>As opposed the 'nodding' your head.</dd>
<dt id="T23-16-04">23:16:04 [PaulE]</dt><dd>shit shit shit shit shit.</dd>
<dt id="T23-16-41">23:16:41 [hazmat]</dt><dd>btw. if anyone is curious the logging works great ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-16-46">23:16:46 [PaulE]</dt><dd>i can't get _any_ operating system to do power mgmt on that damn Dell.</dd>
<dt id="T23-17-03">23:17:03 [PaulE]</dt><dd>hazmat: tell the logging bot i said "shit".</dd>
<dt id="T23-17-13">23:17:13 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>PaulE: what model dell?</dd>
<dt id="T23-17-23">23:17:23 [PaulE]</dt><dd>inspiron 7000, i believe.</dd>
<dt id="T23-17-32">23:17:32 [PaulE]</dt><dd>under linux, it's pretty funny.</dd>
<dt id="T23-17-32-1">23:17:32 [hazmat]</dt><dd>PaulE: it will be up on the web, shortly.</dd>
<dt id="T23-17-42">23:17:42 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>hrmm.. I'm on a 7500 right now.. debian handles power management just fine :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-17-49">23:17:49 [PaulE]</dt><dd>i unplug AC and it locks up, though the battery is still working.</dd>
<dt id="T23-18-04">23:18:04 [PaulE]</dt><dd>win2k doesn't even turn on power mgmt.</dd>
<dt id="T23-18-08">23:18:08 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>wow</dd>
<dt id="T23-18-32">23:18:32 [PaulE]</dt><dd>for your 7500, did you have to upgrade the bios?</dd>
<dt id="T23-18-46">23:18:46 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>yeah</dd>
<dt id="T23-18-58">23:18:58 [PaulE]</dt><dd>also, does it work for standby or suspend (the one with the partition or the in-memory one)?</dd>
<dt id="T23-19-26">23:19:26 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>well, I nuked the suspend partition on accident.. but it will do standby</dd>
<dt id="T23-19-39">23:19:39 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>been too lazy to recreate the partition</dd>
<dt id="T23-20-00">23:20:00 [Martijn]</dt><dd>Maybe that's the key ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-20-12">23:20:12 [PaulE]</dt><dd>actually i don't want the suspend partition, i want standby.</dd>
<dt id="T23-20-31">23:20:31 [PaulE]</dt><dd>at least, i want standby that doesn't also mean "complete lockup".</dd>
<dt id="T23-20-53">23:20:53 [PaulE]</dt><dd>maybe i need to remove "CompleteLockup=yes" from the apm scripts. :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-20-58">23:20:58 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>heh..</dd>
<dt id="T23-21-29">23:21:29 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>PaulE: you running with single or dual batteries?</dd>
<dt id="T23-21-40">23:21:40 [PaulE]</dt><dd>single.</dd>
<dt id="T23-22-16">23:22:16 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>hrmm.. ok.. I've had some trouble every once in a while with dual batteries.. but not often..</dd>
<dt id="T23-22-19">23:22:19 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>so that's not it ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-22-26">23:22:26 [limi]</dt><dd>PaulE: [Plone] uhm, "yes"? (sorry about the response time :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-22-35">23:22:35 [PaulE]</dt><dd>hey, that's alright.</dd>
<dt id="T23-23-00">23:23:00 [PaulE]</dt><dd>i was pretty impressed at how my bush-league mockups could be converted to plone by lalo in an hour.</dd>
<dt id="T23-23-23">23:23:23 [Metron]</dt><dd>they were converted to look like plone - this is quite different ;-)</dd>
<dt id="T23-23-25">23:23:25 [PaulE]</dt><dd>i'm not that interested in the precise look-and-feel that i mocked up for new.zope.org.</dd>
<dt id="T23-23-27">23:23:27 [limi]</dt><dd>PaulE: it will be a case of minutes in the new release ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-23-33">23:23:33 [PaulE]</dt><dd>but i am interested in the structure.</dd>
<dt id="T23-23-47">23:23:47 [PaulE]</dt><dd>hmm, explain...</dd>
<dt id="T23-24-04">23:24:04 [limi]</dt><dd>PaulE: we have Color Presets, for example.</dd>
<dt id="T23-24-32">23:24:32 [limi]</dt><dd>PaulE: but of course, changing the whole CSS is also an option</dd>
<dt id="T23-24-41">23:24:41 [Metron]</dt><dd>I just twitched your CSS and pasted stuff from limi's where I thought it would look good. Really using plone would be much better because color, widths etc are controlled centrally using dtml</dd>
<dt id="T23-24-58">23:24:58 [limi]</dt><dd>*ahem* HTML</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-00">23:25:00 [limi]</dt><dd>:)</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-09">23:25:09 [limi]</dt><dd>Plone has DTML support now, btw</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-20">23:25:20 [PaulE]</dt><dd>hahaha, plone.org doesn't work with Moz from Feb 28.</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-27">23:25:27 [Metron]</dt><dd>no, I really mean dtml :-) like: a {color: &lt;dtml-var link-color&gt;} or something</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-28">23:25:28 [PaulE]</dt><dd>jeez, mozilla just makes life fun.</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-29">23:25:29 [limi]</dt><dd>standard_html_header etc :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-37">23:25:37 [limi]</dt><dd>PaulE: I know ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-44">23:25:44 [PaulE]</dt><dd>is it @import?</dd>
<dt id="T23-25-46">23:25:46 [hazmat]</dt><dd>blackhole: stop</dd>
<dt id="T23-26-41">23:26:41 [limi]</dt><dd>PaulE: I have enough to do at the moment :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-26-41-1">23:26:41 [PaulE]</dt><dd>yeh, no kidding!</dd>
<dt id="T23-26-41-2">23:26:41 [hazmat]</dt><dd>hehe...</dd>
<dt id="T23-27-14">23:27:14 [limi]</dt><dd>but since mozilla.org is going to use Plone, I suspect they will get those bugs fixed ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-28-03">23:28:03 [PaulE]</dt><dd>i'm trying to fetch the release schedule from plone.org, but it ain't answering.</dd>
<dt id="T23-28-09">23:28:09 [PaulE]</dt><dd>any plans for advanced editing?</dd>
<dt id="T23-28-46">23:28:46 [limi]</dt><dd>yes ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-28-54">23:28:54 [limi]</dt><dd>super sikrit ones ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-29-03">23:29:03 [L-array]</dt><dd>L-array has left #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T23-29-17">23:29:17 [limi]</dt><dd>we need to get the 1.0 release out first.</dd>
<dt id="T23-29-27">23:29:27 [PaulE]</dt><dd>oooh, a sikrit.  doo tell.</dd>
<dt id="T23-29-48">23:29:48 [limi]</dt><dd>0.9.9 has suffered from Feature Creep Deluxe(tm)</dd>
<dt id="T23-30-06">23:30:06 [PaulE]</dt><dd>no doubt. :^)</dd>
<dt id="T23-30-09">23:30:09 [limi]</dt><dd>that's why there are all these PRx releases.</dd>
<dt id="T23-30-23">23:30:23 [limi]</dt><dd>runyaga used up all our version numbers ;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-31-10">23:31:10 [PaulE]</dt><dd>hmm, i can't remember my plone.org password.  i tried to have it mailed to me, but got an SMTP zope exception.</dd>
<dt id="T23-31-28">23:31:28 [limi]</dt><dd>we should maybe have hidden Plone from view until 1.0 - people are using it in production systems, which is insane right now :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-31-42">23:31:42 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>release early, release often</dd>
<dt id="T23-31-44">23:31:44 [JkrLaptop]</dt><dd>;)</dd>
<dt id="T23-36-49">23:36:49 [limi]</dt><dd>upgrading is a bitch, and people wil have to do twice the work if they go for early versions :)</dd>
<dt id="T23-37-07">23:37:07 [drauku]</dt><dd>but that isnt the developers problem :P</dd>
<dt id="T23-37-59">23:37:59 [Metron]</dt><dd>0.9.9 is working</dd>
<dt id="T23-38-20">23:38:20 [Metron]</dt><dd>if I happen to use it in a production site, I *won't* upgrade it to 1.0 in the foreseeable future</dd>
<dt id="T23-38-29">23:38:29 [PaulE]</dt><dd>0.9.9, it isn't out.</dd>
<dt id="T23-38-36">23:38:36 [PaulE]</dt><dd>do you mean the branch builds?</dd>
<dt id="T23-38-44">23:38:44 [Metron]</dt><dd>sorry, then that should have been 0.9.8 :-)</dd>
<dt id="T23-39-00">23:39:00 [Metron]</dt><dd>but I mean, that's contractor pragmatism</dd>
<dt id="T23-39-26">23:39:26 [Metron]</dt><dd>CMF was already great by 1.0. If my customer needed it back then, so it would have had it.</dd>
<dt id="T23-42-10">23:42:10 [hazmat]</dt><dd>perhaps this dicussion could be had on #zope</dd>
<dt id="T23-42-24">23:42:24 [PaulE]</dt><dd>true.</dd>
<dt id="T23-42-30">23:42:30 [PaulE]</dt><dd>off i go...</dd>
<dt id="T23-42-34">23:42:34 [PaulE]</dt><dd>PaulE has left #zope3-dev</dd>
<dt id="T23-42-48">23:42:48 [Metron]</dt><dd>perhaps this discussion could not be had at all.</dd>
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