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History for Apr04ChatLog
??changed:- <PaulE> do you mean audience? <sebb> For example, there are very many newbies who turn away. do we care about them more or less than python developers? <sebb> audience, right <BillA> olivier: that URL returns not ofund :( <sebb> perhaps that's not necessary though - what do folks think? <olivier> typo : http://www.zope.org/Members/paul/newzopeorg/ia02Apr2002.txt <BillA> sebb: do you mena, who are we tryign to talk to sort of thing? <PaulE> sebb: ok, I'll provide more detail. <BillA> olivier: thanx <PaulE> sebb, you were setting deadlines. continue. :) <sebb> BillA: right, it would provide a means to justify IA layout decisions <sebb> ok, PaulE ok for wed? <sebb> olivier, what do you need to produce a final front page design? <PaulE> yes. <lennart> I think the most important is the newbies. <PaulE> i'm out of the office from sat to wed, so that means tomorrow. <olivier> sebb : time ;) <sebb> how many iterations? <casey> lennart: I would shoot just one level above total newbies... <olivier> we will make reports every night <sebb> you are ok for time on that olivier? <lennart> Casey: Well, I include total newbies and beginners in the same. It needs to be easier to find information to get started. <olivier> yes <BillA> sebb: I seem to recall someone saying something about splitting it up into sub-sites, and that the main www.zope.org would be aimed at introductory information, is that on the table? <PaulE> i propose that we don't say "_final_ front page design" <casey> lennart: yes <PaulE> rather "_next_" <sebb> OK, re audience - how about PaulE leads a email thread listing his ideas and we take it from there? YET ([email protected]) has joined channel #zope-web <sebb> PaulE: right <PaulE> sebb: ideas on what? <PaulE> i have no ideas. :) <sebb> PaulE, audience :) Ultranewbies first, pythonistas second, etc... <sebb> You could take the survey results as a starting point <PaulE> ahh, ok. <PaulE> yes, i'll handle that one in my writeup. <sebb> ok, how about a final-next design by..hmm.... <PaulE> tomorrow. hathawsh ([email protected]) has joined channel #zope-web <PaulE> we're close enough. <sebb> ok <PaulE> there's plenty more ground to cover... <PaulE> but we need to get to a checkpoint. <sebb> how about whatever we have week thurs we stick to on design <sebb> thurs because that's when you're back, PaulE. <PaulE> good idea. <sebb> PaulE: remember it's the end of the day in europe... rdmurray has left channel #zope-web <sebb> casey: could you write up some sketches regarding functionality? <casey> Like a list of requirements, or... <sebb> i think the most important thing there is to concentrate on easy wins <casey> 8^) <sebb> identify the easiest ones :-) <olivier> Someone is yawning here :( Have to leave soon ! Do you still need me ? YET has left channel #zope-web <PaulE> sebb: describe the next milestone. <PaulE> olivier: give us 5 more minutes? <olivier> Ok. Negociating <sebb> ok, we have IA finished Wed, Design Thurs. <PaulE> sebb: the one after this. <olivier> Ok. Have 5 minutes <PaulE> right. <sebb> A milestone point could be Friday <casey> sebb: What do you want me to sketch exacty, biggest bang to buck features to work on? <sebb> This would be: a completed front page design <PaulE> to include writing up scenarios/requirements? <sebb> casey: right <sebb> (week friday) <sebb> ..completed front page design... <sebb> ...'bang to buck' funtionality... <sebb> ..IA defining site taxonomy and front page layout. <PaulE> good. <casey> ok <PaulE> we'll put this in the wiki as the schedule. <PaulE> before olivier leaves... <olivier> ok <PaulE> i'd like to get a vote on something, and also... <PaulE> set the time for the next chat. <PaulE> 10 <PaulE> 10AM eastern tomorrow? <PaulE> to review the milestone? <lennart> OK for me. <sebb> OK <olivier> ok <PaulE> done. <casey> too early 8^) <PaulE> seb, can you announce it? <olivier> could be late <olivier> if not there, i will leave on email on zope-web with a new url <PaulE> ok. <PaulE> on to what i'd like a vote on... <sebb> ...could we nudge it forward for casey? <casey> I was kidding... <sebb> :) <PaulE> if it is ok, i'd like to go through a series of sentences without interruptions... <PaulE> ...then get +1/-1 from eveyone. <PaulE> cool? <PaulE> ok, here goes. <PaulE> instead of one www.zope.org that does news, apps, docs, recipes, etc.... <PaulE> perhaps we should encourage apps.zope.org, news.zope.org, docs.zope.org, etc. <PaulE> a family of sites... <PaulE> perhaps in different locations... <PaulE> similar to how KDE works. <PaulE> this would lower the stress of a mammoth zope.org upgrade. <PaulE> thoughts? <BillA> +5 <BillA> I htought I heard that somewhere :) <lennart> +0.5? <olivier> -1 <sebb> sounds good, but how is it different from news sections etc? <olivier> (what about searches ?) <casey> I dunno... It really depends how you do it...searches, yeah that could be confusing <BillA> olivier: eitehr an XML or SOAP interface to search multiple catalogs might work <olivier> let's make it simple ;) <casey> nah, you could still have one catalog methinks <PaulE> the goal would be to encourage creativitiy. <sebb> PaulE: could you explain the benefits? <PaulE> get new stuff sooner. <sebb> PaulE: different branded sites, with different managers, etc? <PaulE> and not make www.zope.org the bottleneck for progress. <olivier> this could be done with hyperlinks ! <BillA> true, if you could implement it such that all sites catalogued a main catalog, say search.zope.org, along with their own (that way it spreads load out) it could work <casey> It'll be confusing from a UI perspective... <PaulE> yes, it isn't as integrated. <PaulE> but integration hasn't helped www.zope.org. <PaulE> in some ways, it has hurt it. <PaulE> i.e. the whole product catalog thing sucks. <casey> I think I'm ambivilant. Either way could be bad or good, really. <sebb> i'm not clear on the difference between splitting a site based on url path vs. splitting it by subdomain <casey> right <PaulE> forget technology <lennart> I'm slowly changing my mind to -1 here.. <olivier> still -1 :) <PaulE> ok. <sebb> not made up my mind... <casey> I think I prefer a split below the home page possibly, rather than above it <PaulE> there certainly isn't a strong consensus to do it. <BillA> one advantage is that is zope.org goes down, then developers.zope.org could still be up Signoff: hathawsh ("back to woik") <PaulE> case closed! <olivier> one can have subdomains that are mapping a subpart of the mammoth website ! <sebb> PaulE, the problem you wish to address is bottleneck, right? <PaulE> yep. <BillA> I think uptime should be afactor as well <PaulE> people work better by themselves. :) <sebb> do you think you can identify the bottleneck more accurately? <casey> I think areas of the site could still have home pages tho, with delegated resposible parties <sebb> e.g. give an example? <PaulE> sebb: nope. :) <PaulE> here's a shot. <PaulE> andy mckay does a better job of zope news than we'll ever do. <PaulE> rather than recreate it. <casey> BillA: uptime won't really be affected either way. Either one could live on one or more servers in many ways. <PaulE> let him do it. <sebb> so it's about clean delegation <olivier> my time is over :( <olivier> have to leave <PaulE> it's about tapping into energy. <sebb> cya <PaulE> bye olivier! <BillA> bye olivier <olivier> waiting for the summary :) <olivier> bya ! olivier has left channel #zope-web <PaulE> one last question. <casey> This is not about splitting the site ui wise, I think its more about unifying the existing sites (zopezen, zopelabs, etc), maybe? <sebb> PaulE, right, energy <PaulE> should we spend any energy at all trying to improve current www.zope.org? <PaulE> i don't expect new.zope.org to replace it in the next 3 months. <sebb> we should migrate existing content i think Signoff: nidecker (Connection timed out) <casey> Then yes, at least content wise. <PaulE> fyi: the forked site discussion has closed. :) <PaulE> we're going to live with current.zope.org for a while. <sebb> i vote for leaving zope.org [29 more lines...]